Well you have to remember that for the professional tuners it's their living so telling you how to do it yourself means lost income. You can do your own research on the forums but there is something to be said for leaving some things to the pros, and believe me I am all for DIY and saving money. But making a mistake in tuning can cause a lot of very expensive damage so you have to weigh that. And of course speed always costs money, and you car is at the level where it's a lot of money to go faster, like you said.

^ The pro's weren't born that way. I think I may be good at it, but I won't know till i start. And some people can actually find a mentor that is willing to help them get started. I've found a site with some introduction to tuning information. THAT is all I wanted. I just want a rough outline of the different factors of what goes on in there besides, VE, a/f and fuel tables. I lurk occasionally on HP, but get overwhelmed easily.

Just fyi first tune with don is avg priced at 450 or 550 i forget then retumes are much less so it's not that ba of being at his mercy and his tunes are still good i havn't retuned for my heads but my car still does 12.5 at wot wothout a glitch. I say pay dad back when u can an don't worry so much about shit. Enjoy the car maybe sell the rims and put stockers on to pay him back if u need to

J+M is very well disliked in the LS world. Mostly due to the overcharging and lack of tuning knowledge. I'll bet the car is not full VE tuned,that you requested, and they have the balls to give you uncorrected #'s which mean nothing except they could very well be 20+hp more than the corrected #'s and of course make them look great.Add that to the TSP STD #'s and the car just hasn't been measured correctly yet. Well, except when it dyno'd here with corrected #'s that are now comparable.

I would have charged you $250 for the pump too.The shops have to make a profit but I would of diagnosed the real problem first since these cars don't run out of fuel pump at 430rwhp or so.

Either way the car is done and hopefully running right. Now you can enjoy it.

Even trying to teach someone for a month wouldn't work. Tuners learn things everyday. I just fixed a tune on a 2010 Camaro.Base running ect was done in 10 minutes(other shop took 6 hr's and still stalled all the time) but took me another hour to track down 1 hiccup while very light throttle at 1400rpm only.Another thing learned for future tunes.

^ I just rather hear an un-biased opinion. Like your first response here. No offence at all, Don, but when people come off as cocky, it's a HUGE turnoff for me. But on the contrary, I don't want someone who is flakey or indecisive. I just want a confident impression of my tuner which was what I got initially at J&M. If someone is cocky, I am more apt to shop around a little more. And the whole thing would be a 6 hr round trip for me to go out there and back. Not to mention how many times I would have to do it in the process of the tune. It just sucked that this needed so much other work.

After my experience with them, no fukin way would I go back. But I HAVE to now to pick up my MAF that I forgot to grab when I was there last, but watch it "walk away" between now and next week. :mad:

I got the corrected numbers and it was 436/402, but the a/f graph is WAAAAAAAAAAY out of wack and this asshole gave me EVERY excuse in the book to why he can't add fuel down low. "Well, I can't add fuel or it will chug and not run right." Then tells me that my 42# injectors are still at 50-60% DC??! That don't make sense with the 255 pump either. I mean this was a dangerous lean spike which carried well over half my power band... he said "Well, everyone wants w perfect boxed af graph and everyone is gonna bitch so I just tell them to fuk off. I was watching the o2's when I did it. It's fine." Which doesn't make sense if he's so paranoid about it leaning out at 13.7, but he lets THIS fly!?!?!? Fukin HACK sofb I want to smash his fukin windows, but his insurance would cover that. They're parts catalog shopping hacks. :mad: I just wish there was some way to recoup some of my losses.


And as far as the wheels, I'd do a set of C5 ZO6's EASY, but those would prolly be about as much as mine were anyway. Mine were cheapo AR's @ $205/ea.



I'm not expecting to "know what I'm talking about" in a month time frame. I just want to get a grounding for the different aspects, so I can have a little bit of a knowledge base.

I'm gonna be stuck in CT for a while now, so I'll be around. Figure I may have you tinker with the car sometime late this year if all goes well. If not sooner, especially if my a/f graph is all fuked up like it is.

I don't want to post it because I don't want to hear that I was "wrong" with my tuner choice. Live and learn.. This was just a very expensive life lesson...... again..

And no, you weren't badgering me... I just caught a lot of flack over this intake purchase when, I think, it was all a huge misunderstanding to begin with. I'm a pretty level person most of the time... Yeah I have a tendency to get angry and worry a lot (I'm neurotic, so sue me... lol) But I'm a LOT calmer than I was 5-8 years ago. I was a real hot head back in my early 20's.

But I asked for some intake feedback, and I was researching it as I was posting the thread.(I know, I'm dragging up something in the past that is over and done with) but some said that "the 102 is too big, you'll lose low end." etc etc.. But when I would consult someone who has countless hours of R&D into these intakes about different flow numbers and intake flow theory, some here would come back and tell me the guy was full of it...... That didn't sit right with me. -So someone with only a handful of experience with the intake is telling me that someone with 8 years of R&D experience doesn't know what they're talking about? I will trust the 8 years of R&D experience, I'm sorry. Nothing personal to anyone, but that's just who I trust. And I go by numbers because it is concrete proof that there is something different between two parts. I did not start the thread with ulterior motives, nor did I start it on a bias. -FAST brand choice made, yes. Look up the thread and read through where I got to the point where I said "Well... I've exhausted every bit of research on these two intakes and I can't decide now." I chose the 102 because it was an all-around better designed intake.

I got the intake and I saw some solid gains.... Questionable hack tuning it? Yeah.. big time.. It's gonna cost me more money to have this shit fixed now not to mention if the rear end will hold up the rest of the year and god knows how I'm going to come up with money to fix that shit.



But it boils down to....... I'm a theory junkie as far as cars. I soak this shit up like a sponge.. I always have. Normally, if I hear it once, I'll remember it for a very long time.

My cockyness is pretty much from what I see. You see the current A/F from the tune and say WTF. I say the same thing when I open his tunes and see what is done. I personally talked to him 2 weeks ago. A customer had a rear 02 problem in his Challenger.Diablo told him to talk to the people at J+M. He called them from my shop. The customer asked for them to talk to me (a freind of his that understands more about cars) and they threw out so much BS it made me sick on how they could fix it which I knew was lies.

If you hung around me more you'd see I'm not cocky. I'm very straight forward and the posts reflect that. You would also see at the shop cars rolling in from other shops,some barely run and we have to fix them. That pisses me off that people spend there hard earned money on there car,get raped and the cars run like shit. After there ass hurts they have to go somewhere else to have it properly fixed.

Now, after you see the graphs and have doubt- would you really drive the car around and risk the chance of killing it?

On a side note- I have no interest in tuning or working on your car. This is just my opinion on your situation.

^ Alright.. no problem..

But does that make ANY sens that he said "Well, I was watching the O2's and it's fine." ??? That doesn't seem right. The af graph should be the deciding factor.

I'd def get it checked out at another dyno, it all seems a bit sketchy and the graph doesn't make sense. I'm also sure that if it is accurate you gained way more from fixing the car than the intake. As for us low end "disbelievers" 200HP at 3500RPM is kinda low for a heads/cam car IMO, but without a good comparison to put up against with so many issues with the car previously we will never know for sure. I am surprised by the torque numbers though, very healthy if they are true. Get it checked out, get it to the track and see what it really does