AFR graph and HPT
 

After looking through my log file from my tune, this tuning business seems a LOT less complex than I imagined. (Gonna pick up a Greg Banish DVD also) I'm going to pick up HP Tuners in the next couple of months or so and tinker with my truck. He's going to fix the idle on my car one of these days when I get back up there. he's busy this weekend, so it'll be in the next month or so. -Not going to charge me for it. I've also got a CEL for MAF high V reference (IIRC) which he said it should set a code, but not a light. From what he told me, the MAF is set to "fail" so the SD will be used but shouldn't be setting a light. -Is that right?? He's gonna look at that too for me. Commanded 11.5 AFR and 11.2 toward the middle/top. He said that's what the car wanted, so he fed it.

I went back on Friday after work to pick up my MAF they forgot to give back and told him I'll be needing gears soon. I have to let traffic get about 3 car lengths ahead of me from a stop so I can get my R's up so I won't rear end someone. It runs fine, but depending on the car's mood, sometimes it doesn't like to be baby'd and needs to be kicked and floored. = Needs gears to get rolling. And other days it's lazy and puttering around at 1500 is fine with it and creeps from a stop no problem. He said he wants to go for a ride with me to do some data logging and see how my driving style is. No prob with me. I hate talking with the guy, because I start siding with him. Every one has a different method of tuning and everyone is going to act like they're the best, so you kind of have to sort through what you hear and read to come up with the best decision. -Basically what he was saying. He WAS quite expensive though, but I did have a bit of work done. Codes, tank pressure sensor, exhaust work, fuel pump + harness, Tank harness (mice chewed thru) and tune. And I squeezed some money off the top as a Veteran's discount when I paid for it.

And I've been back and fourth about EFI live and HP Tuners and I think the HP tuners is a little more user friendly. Ideas?? I'm open on this one but leaning towards HPT.


Here's the AF graph. NVM the STD Smoothing run. I'm ready to post this now. HPT boards said it was fine and some of it can be shifted over as enrichment time between the spike and when the mixture hits the sniffer at the tips. He said he's run WB02's and tip sniffers and he's only seen about a 50-100rpm difference between them.


Just lemme know how ok this is. and try to be easy on me, I'm still a little touchy about this whole subject. I know, I know, I tried something different and it was a gamble. But you gotta admit, that TQ Curve does spike pretty hard though.. :D I'm pretty set on a 102 plate system from Nitro Dave's later this year also. Gonna throw a 125 shot at it and call it good for power for a while. -I've done a LOT of nitrous research in the past, so I'm pretty familiar with the safety systems and pulling timing.
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i dont think i like the points system with HPT. and i really think EFI Live has a better OS for the LSx ecm that nothing really out there can touch. if your Really set on tuning it yourself. and want the Best(Honestly Just my Opinion) then get EFI Live.

not even close to acceptable for me but i already said what I would do. good luck with learning and tinkering.

I'm not going to touch the car with my tuning stuff. From what I've read about on HPT boards, the BEST way to learn is to start on a stock car. You can't expect to try and tune a h/c car for your first project, you're just going to pull your hair out. -Good advice right there, IMO. That's why I said I'm going to tinker with my truck; the 2004 Colorado 2.8 4 cyl, bone stock. I can dial the timing back, tinker with the VE tables and then ramp the timing back in and make a couple pulls at a dyno I found and see what it likes and doesn't like. All it should need is a mixture adjustment (leaning, fuel trims) and some minor timing adjustment.

And pizza, yeah I think I've heard about the EFIL OS. My buddy had both and he said he likes EFI Live better.. Did some quick searching on Tech about it the other night and it was leaning toward HPT. Still not sure from that read. hard decision to make. Whichever is easier to use, but EFIL is tempting.. Almost seems like a tradeoff.

yeah GM runs there timing WAY too high for my liking. my Avy hits 49 degrees at like 3500 rpm and just hold it all the way threw Pinging 5500.

49*?! Wow.. I thought 21* on my buddy's stang was high.

And as far as my car goes, I may download the tune and look at it, but I won't change anything. I'm anxious to mess with the truck though. That thing needs help pretty bad. I can put a 5cyl TB on it. They say it's an easy gain. Just gotta port it.

I used HPT in my class a few times. I dont like the AFR jumping up and down like it does in that graph. I was able to tune a SC/SS cobalt to 11.8 at WOT from 2000 rpm to 7000 rpm. As well as out LS1 WS6 we had, was about to get 12.6 across it, made 430rwhp too.

HPT has a better forum,just need to learn who to listen too. Alot less info online with EFI live.

Your car should drive like stock or very close.If it doesn't, don't drive it anymore to avoid damage.

Since your deadset on not having a tuner that you now will tune it right due to pride. Then search out a guy named Kevin with a usser name NoGo. He is the only one I would trust in the North East. Do not make another mistake. Also,don't go with any of the tuners around Worchester that talk the game.

^ Wow.. This really is a trade off.. Hard decision.

And Most of the reason I never went to Mass to have it tuned was because it would have been 6 hrs of driving total just to go out and hang out for a minute or even just to check up on it. It was a little far for me, I know it woulda been well worth it, but I was being stubborn about it.

And it'll be a WHILE before I get it fixed. I still gotta pay my father back after I get my debt paid off. My back went out this week, so my job is on the rocks right now. I'm hoping they can put me in the equipment and change crews.

Weren't u just talking about rear ends?




Also Don you feeling ok? You just complimented nogo lol

LOL, his tunes are ok compared to a ton of hacks up here.

I'd like to get a rear by the end of the summer, but not sure if it'll happen.

And does STD, SAE or Uncorrected change the AF graph?? I'm not thinking so, but figured I'd ask.

correction factor changes the rwhp or rwtq depending on what the dyno measures and corrects it to sea level. or roughly there of. AF Graph is read from the standalone(most cases) wideband then just on the graph based on RPM.

An A/F graph doesn't change in SAE,STD ect.

BUT, you never judge a tune by just A/F readings.

^ Elaborate? I was using it as a guide to show if the tuner was any decent. -Getting it even and smooth. (and safe) If it's all over the place, they didn't put much effort into it. IMO.

he means theres other aspects to a tune besides fuel that make it "good" or "safe"

AF can be spot on but the hp graph dont look so good wen your pining away at 45* timing.

^ He was saying he doesn't tune them for MAX performance, at the edge of disaster. He said he tunes them on the safe side, and for what the car responds to.


Yeah, I gathered that much. Was just looking for him to expand on it a little more.

But then you read from alot of local people that he just sucks at tuning and some people did get motor damage shortly after his "tuning".

You said yourself the car acts strange sometimes. Do yourself a favor and do not drive it till a respectable tuner looks at the car/tune.

There is no safe or race tune for a car like yours. It's called -The right tune.

^ I just don't have the money to get it tuned right, right now. I do, but I don't. It has to be spent elsewhere...........More like to pay off the money I already spent.. And the car has always been moody, and I'm not running the FAST TB either, so this pretty much IS an on/off switch in front of the intake. I can baby it, but it depends on the car's mood. -Once I really open it up, it's fine.

And I'm always skeptical when I hear stories. What was the damage? what cause it? was it DIRECTLY his fault? Was the owner of the car an idiot? Mileage? Mods? A lot comes into stuff like that. And I'm not directing that as a J&M Defense, I just don't believe much that I hear or read about lately. (True story here--> ) "Well, so&so said those water filters leak... She talked to two people." So, out of the 2 people she polled that said they leak, she chose to believe 100% of them.... -Stuff like that. If there were 100 people polled out of a neutral group in a neutral spot and 65 of them said they leaked, then I would shy away from the GE Water filters. Who installed it? proficiency level? Did they tape the connections? Did they over tighten them?? etc etc

I've become more neutral now days. Open to ideas, though.

Maybe I'm saying in a nice way that someone like myself has seen many of the tunes and consider them dangerous?

I'm done with you. You can not take any hints and love to question everything while throwing out a ton of excuses. It's your car and you can learn the hard way, some more.

^ I'm just asking dude.. I don't know how to convey this anymore neutral. I'm not getting emotional and I'm not yelling..

And I didn't pick that hint up at all. I'm not good at reading between the lines most of the time.... I didn't even think of it.... Maybe that's why I have a hard time with women.. heh


I'm very analytical. Maybe too much.. I dunno..


But as far as the tuning software, I'm leaning toward EFI Live now. Pizza's comment about the points system seems to have effected the judgment.

Tuning for WOT was a breeze on HPT, dont be scared of it! lol

On a side note, I wasd talking to my buddy about his car and he was asking me about tuning it (carb). He said he just had it "dyno tuned" and was VERY VERY unhappy about it. After 3 hours of tuning it, they managed to LOSE 50rwhp, the car runs like crap and is WAY over jetted. I asked him where he had it done... J & M...

^ Yeah, Like I said, I want to get it retuned, but just can't spare the money quite yet. My power is right in the ball-park though. but I'm gonna stop by again some time and ask him to pull up the tune again and see how much timing he ran. I'm not a fan of the guy, but the other side of me is only giving him the benefit of a doubt.

Honestly.. From the story you posted before.. And from what I've been told, they sound like a JOKE. I would never go back there again, but thats just me. Save up some money and go elsewhere.. seriously.

^ Yeah, eventually. I wasn't really impressed with them, but like I said I'd LIKE to give them the benefit of a doubt. ... But I'll have to find another tuner who specializes in GM powertrain. Don won't tune it, so I inadvertently burned that bridge.. I don't have anything against the guy, professionally, we just seem like those two people that don't get along. I'm not pissed about anything, I just don't like making enemies. And I'm not going to be an immature 13 year old about it either.... It is what it is.. Just quietly keeping on my side and not going to lob anything over the fence.. Just carry about my business.

I'm a nice guy so maybe I have a hard time letting go of things and learning to just cut my losses and move on.. Ah well..

Not sure if he tunes GM's at all but Chris at EFI logic did a really good job on a friend of mines turbo mustang. He's down in CT