I hired a car detective.
 

I wanted to get more info on the 69 Z/28 so for $250, I hired a car detective. Bill Gould whose website is: http://www.autoancestry.com/

"As founder and owner of Auto Ancestry Bill Gould has a background as an Air Force cryptolinguist flying 160 combat missions over Vietnam and Laos, is an accomplished genealogist and mechanical engineer, as well as a successful thirty year business owner. Bill is also a life long Corvette owner with an appreciation and love for antique cars, especially early Corvettes."

It fits in nice because Bill is an Air Force guy and this car was kicked around between Air Force guys since 1969.

Alfred is the 2nd owner per the protect-o-plate (POP) I have. The POP only lists Alfreds initials, last name, address of Hamilton AFB, California, and the car VIN. The 2nd owner POP would entitle the new owner to the remainder of the 1 year warranty.

The normal 1st owner POP had a lot more information on the plate. It would include the:

Carburetor Source
Engine Production Code
Rear Axle Number
Vehicle Build Month
Transmission Number
Power Steering
Power Brakes
Radio Option
Disc Brake Option
Air Conditioning
Power Window Equipment

=======================================
Bill tracked Alfred down in CA.

He sent him a letter with "I am researching the history of a 1969 Z28 Camaro that you may have purchased new from Placke Chevrolet in St Louis while stationed at Scott Air Force Base in Illinois. "

……………….and I just finished talking with Alfred for an hour on the phone. I have notes everywhere and have to organize them. It was great talking with him!

Cool stuff. Is that the '69 you just bought or the one under resto?

The 69 Z/28 I just bought. It was real cool talking with him. I just typed up some notes:
------------------------------------
Alfred bought the car from Placke Chevrolet in 1969.

It was a new/used car meaning that it was still within its first year warranty period. He paid $3,400 since it was not new, but new/used. Alfred thinks that the first owner didn’t make the payments on the car and it was repossessed. When he bought it, it had 3,000-4,000 miles on it. He had been looking at a metallic-brown 69Z with the cowl-induction hood, but did not like the automatic on the brown one. He wasn’t in love with the green color or the flat hood on it, but wanted the 4-speed so he bought the green one.

He was stationed at Scott AFB in Illinois when he came back from Vietnam in 1968, but just got reassigned to Hamilton AFB in CA. In 1972 he was reassigned to Wichita Falls, TX at Sheppard AFB. His son was born in 1973 and he wanted to get a more family oriented vehicle and bought a 74 Chevy pickup. He sold it either in 1973 or 1974 to Dave B for $1,650. He thinks it was most likely in 1974 so he had it for about 5 years. Dave B was also in the Air Force living in Wichita Falls, TX. Alfred was an airman 1st class and thinks that Dave might have been a fellow instructor.

For maintenance, he mentioned changing the clutch in 1971. Also he had a recurring problem with the valve springs and the same valve spring broke 3 or 4 times. He got real good at fixing it and used to carry the needed tools like the spring compressor and sockets with him. Once it broke at night going across the golden gate bridge when he started hearing a tapping. He pulled into the toll plaza parking lot and changed it right there. For the carburetor, he did not change the carb that was on it, but he repaired it once and reinstalled it. The wheels he changed. He put on aluminum 5 spoke mags. The front end of the car was real low, and the spoiler broke off. He had the front-end springs changed and then the front end was too high. He ended up putting 60 series Firestone tires on it. He also mentioned putting on a capacitive discharge system, which was a small box, and he screwed it on the firewall. This way he did not have to keep changing out the points on the distributor.

The only rust area he ever spotted was around the back window.

He said he still has the same girlfriend/now wife from when he had the car and the first thing she said to him is “ask him if he wants to sell it”. He said to let him know first if I ever want to sell it.

He will be 68 in a few months.

cool!

wow thats awesome!

Great stuff!

Very interesting David! Cool stuff!

Thanks guys!

Alfred said he has two huge boxes of pictures to look through to find some pictures of the car from when he had it.

Bill Gould:Car Detective is going to start looking for the next owner Dave B.

thats pretty sweet. I love hearing the history behind cars

unfortunate because most of our cars would probably go something like

Person A bought the car, 2 years later sold it to Peron B, who continuously beat the piss out of it before selling it to Person C who later sold it to Person D, who had it repo'd, when Person E bought it for a steal and totaled it but had it repaired and sold it to Person F who is a poor...poor shmuck

hahahaha^^^^^^^

Dave thats some kick Ass Shit!! i am lucky i dont have to pay 250 bux for the history. my car being a 2 owner car and im the second! and i know the crazy lady that used to own it! haha but in the end i think you will feel more attached to this new car then any of the others after all this!!!

Thats really cool!

What you described also happened to a lot of first gens along the way.

Things seem to cycle and the older cars that will be the most popular in 20 years might be the 3rd and 4th gens. You really never know.

HA! That is nice that you know the complete history of your car.

If you ever decide to sell it (not that you will), put a business card or something down one of the door panels so that some young person can find it and call you 35 years later and ask you a bunch of questions about it.

I am still putting together piece meal history and just spent 45 minutes asking more questions of to the Air Force guy who sold me the car.

Question 1) How did you have this car for 36 years and only put 4,000 miles on it?

I have 3 more pages of scattered notes everywhere.

Alfred spent the weekend looking for pictures. Man, I owe him big time.

He sent me this note in his email:

I had more than I thought.
01..taken in late '69 in Canoga Park,CA
02.. " "
03..1971 in San Francisco,CA
04..early 1969 at Scott AFB,CA
You can now see the wheels I had on it. Also this was before I changed the front springs which I did in 1970.

#1)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...z28/Z28-01.jpg
#2)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...z28/Z28-02.jpg
#3)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...z28/Z28-03.jpg
#4)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...z28/Z28-04.jpg
#5)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...z28/Z28-05.jpg

haha cool early 70s pics
we did dress like that btw.
ya gotta get a set of those fog lights for the car too!!!!

The fog lights are still hanging on the inside of the car. I thought it was kind of strange they were in there. I am wondering if they are an aftermarket add on or if they came from the factory that way.

I don't really like them and I was thinking of taking them off. Think I should leave them on?

Cool David!

if they are facory installed I would definately leave them on!
talk to the owner and ask if they were .
otherwise leave them off.
I know from the white book there was something mentioned about factory fog lights installed at the dealership.

thats awesome!!!

im with you tho..im not crazy about the foglights...i would only leave em if they were factory....

Thanks Ron!

Little by little all the pieces of ownership history are coming together.

I think that is exactly what I'm going to do, but I think they look terrible.

Edit: I could do something like the Belgian Camaro I found on this page:
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...p?pid/1301165/

http://prod.campuscruiser.com/cruise...f-foglamps.jpg

That does not look bad at all and I could keep the fog lights on.

the fog lights would look good on your sons go kart lol!

This is really cool stuff David. As far as the fog lights ultimately it's your car and you should do whatever makes you happy. If you value keeping it original above all else and they are original than go for it, but if you don't like them than ditch 'em.

I like the look in the pic on the white car above, and if I could make it look like that with the brackets it currently has, I'm going to keep them. Otherwise, I'll just store them.

wow those pics are awesome, that car looked really sweet with the 5 spokes, the fog lights are gross tho, lol.

Jack is the guy I bought the car from (he had it from 1975 to 2011). When he bought it, he said the wheels were hitting and the stance was all wrong since the front springs had been changed. He said he put stock front springs back on, had the rear leaf springs rearched and put stock wheels back on. That's why the date code is off on the Rallly wheels that are on the car now.

Jack said that the wheels that came off had an "ET" on the center caps.

Alfred's pictures are a little blurry, but I think these might be similar wheels to the ones that Alfred had on it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...8/etwheels.jpg

Sold by Team III Wheels: http://www.etwheels.com/et/classic5.html

Alfred said he changed the front springs because he thought the car rode too low in the front and the front spoiler broke off.

Are they a decent wheel company? I've never heard of them. Those look just like american racing torq thrust II's. Id get you a link or a pic but I'm on my phone. And the american racing are a bit cheaper and are decent quality.

I don't know anything about them. For now, I am going to leave the Rally wheels on.

I have a couple more questions to ask Alfred.

1) Is he the one that put on the fog lights?

2) Is he the one that painted the grille black?

I talked to Alfred this morning and he put the fog lights on. I was wondering why I couldn't find any info or RPO code anywhere.

He lived for a while in the San Francisco Bay Area and it was real cloudy some mornings. The fog lights took care of that.

So.....into storage they go.

He also said the grille was black when he bought the car. The car currently has a silver grille that has been painted black. All non-RS Z/28s had a silver grille, so either there was a special order code to paint it black, or the owner before Alfred painted it black.

i say leave it black?

I keep going back and forth on this one.

I did a bunch of google image searches on Rallye Green 69 Z/28s and painted black it does look slightly better.

On the other side, from the factory it is supposed to be painted Argent Silver.

Not sure at this point.

most replacement grills were black ( mine was replaced and came black)
really its up to you what you like.
I prefer black as it hides alot of bug stains and makes the nose grill area seem deeper.

With Bill Gould’s (of Auto Ancestry) help, I have found out that I am the 9th owner of the car. I have talked to all the former owners except for 2. All were in the Air Force and most are Vietnam veterans. I have been documenting their history with the car so that I can keep it as a record with the car.

This is going to sound totally nuts but…..a production company working with the Oprah Winfrey Network called Bill Gould wanting to do a story about reuniting a car with it’s original owner. Bill gave them my name and a woman (Jennifer) from the production company called and asked me a lot of questions. She then called Alfred (the second owner) yesterday.

They want to have the show produced by December, but it’s never going to happen. The car is in a hundred pieces right now and it will not be going back together any time soon.

Yeah they want you to give it back to him :) lol

HA! Not going to happen! Unless Oprah shows up with a couple large briefcases!

they would make money on it so who says they wont get chip foose style restoration done for no cost to you?
I just hope your that lucky!!!!
and ya might be on oprah too!

So, they want to reunite the car with a previous owner.
What do they mean by reunite?:
1) Simply let a previous owner see the car it it's current state.
2) Buy the car from you, 'restore' it, then give it back to a previous owner.
3) 'Restore' the car, show it to a previous owner, then let you keep it.

Man, if #3 were the case then I would go for it. You would need to insist that a correct restoration be done by a reputable shop. I would say No Thanks to a Foose style restification. It would be a shame to ruin that car.

It's a new show they wan't to make called "Found". I don't believe they want any part of the restoration. It's for the Oprah Network, but I don't think she has any actual part in it.


I believe they mean #1, but I would guess they would want to get video of Alfred with the car. Right now, it would be Alfred next to piles of parts
and a car body.

Oh ya! Definitely, no Chip Foose style for this car. I read somewhere that he was using prison labor to build his cars anyway.